Batting first and fourth in the same season

Dodgers who have started a game batting first and cleanup in the same year, since 2000:

2012 – Bobby Abreu
2009 – Matt Kemp
2008 – Nomar Garciaparra
2008 – Russell Martin
2005 – Jayson Werth
2003 – Adrian Beltre
2001 – Marquis Grissom
2001 – Paul Lo Duca

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    TV chat post below this one. 

  • Anonymous

    Obscure…Off-Topic…Non-Tv-Related Comment….

    Here’s a thought which nobody here (including me) would like to consider….

    “If the Dodgers, despite their best efforts, cannot acquire the pieces they need at the trade deadline…then, why not just become ‘sellers’ at the trade deadline?”
    ….
    Consider Kasten’s comments on the limitations of the new CBA…
    Consider the fact that there is an extra wild card, thus more teams hanging on their guys…
    Consider, again…the extra wild card…so, more competition for any available players…
    Consider the current roster….
    Consider the prevailing / pending injuries (Bills, Dee, Coffey, Lilly, etc.)…
    Consider the lack of “currency” the minor league system affords Ned to “wheel and deal”….
    Consider the thought of giving up yet more prospects for mediocre arms (Dempster, etc.) ….
    Personally, I’m more concerned with accelerating the “long process” of rebuilding this franchise as Kasten said himself…. To me, giving up young pieces for a Dempster when we need so, so much more? 
    ….
    Thus, to me… unless the ‘absolutely perfect deal’ comes along…. I’m sellin’ ….if I’m Stan/Ned.
    Hurts to say that given the outstanding start to 2012….

    • Anonymous

      No thanks.  Not as long as we’re still in contention for a playoff spot.

  • Anonymous

    Perhaps an AL club would like Juan Rivera or Bobby Abreau as a DH / PH….

    Perhaps a team would give up a quality 1B or 3B prospect for Chris Capuano….
    If there was ever a poster child for “Sell High” … it’s this guy in 2012…. IMHO.

    Mark Ellis? 
    James Loney?
    Elian Herrera?
    AJ Ellis?

    • Anonymous

      We’re not selling.

    • Anonymous

      An original thought, but I agree hard to imagine we would be selling, despite the past two games.  We have our clubs back in Matty and Dre.  When Matty went down in particular, I thought we were doomed, but we are still in the thick of it in a relaively weak division.  Hard to imagine management throwing in the towel and really not clear that we could get much for what you are offering, even for the longer term.

      • Anonymous

        There are a lot of guys on our roster that we could sell/trade, replacing them with minor league call ups or acquired players, without conceding the season. If we traded Rivera and called up Sands, would we be a worse team? I think not. Same reasoning applies to some of the others…

        • Anonymous

          Why would anyone trade for Rivera?

          • Anonymous

            So they could get rid of Jason Marquis?

        • Anonymous

          Sure, some of the others, but his list includes Cap, and the two Ellis’.

  • Anonymous

    I almost can’t believe it – Uribe advanced the runner to 3rd TWICE today!

    Mind blown.

  • Anonymous

    How many have batted first  and fourth in consecutive games?

  • Anonymous

    It’s not just the players that Mattingly has at his disposal it is Mattingly as well.  Mattingly is the anti-Tracy.  Tracy would stubbornly stay with a fixed lineup and Mattingly stubbornly plays with his lineups.

    Mattingly has worn out his welcome with me.  I am tired of him arguing with umpires and writing Abreu and Rivera onto the lineup.

    The Dodgers have decent pitching and defense and a bunch of boring hitters.  Go with pitching and defense and stop trying to get magic out of boring singles hitters.

    Here is my lineup:

    M. Ellis
    J. Loney
    M. Kemp
    A. Ethier
    A. Ellis
    T. Gwynn
    ?. Cruz
    J. Uribe

    • Anonymous

      Seems a bit harsh.  He didn’t have Matty, Dre, M. Ellis and, for that matter, Uribe for extended periods, so he couldn’t have done the line-up above even if he had wanted to.

      • Anonymous

         Uribe’s frequent absences were a positive.

      • Anonymous

        Deservedly harsh.  

        • Anonymous

          Sure, he has done some things I don’t like, but how about some perspective. Two lousy games over the weekend from being in first place?  Where do you think we should be with our motley crew, ten games in front?

          • Anonymous

            He got lucky when some of the bench players got key hits and he kept trying to drink from the same well.  The players that didn’t think they would get so much playing time were happy but he never developed a core.  

            Loney could have hit so well that Mattingly had to play him.  Instead Loney exposed Mattingly’s immaturity.  

            If Mattingly thinks an umpire made a mistake he can let the umpire know he made a mistake but doesn’t have to get mad.  Mattingly is immature.  

          • Anonymous

            Bobby Cox got kicked out of more games than anyone in major league history. He seemed to do pretty well as a manager.

          • Anonymous

            Hello Bob,
            I don’t like Managers that get infuriated with an umpire.  An argument that starts out with an umpire saying out and a manager saying safe over and over again until a egg could be fried on the managers head is stupid.

          • Anonymous

            I love it when managers get into it with umpires nose to nose. It’s seen less and less which I think is sad.

    • Anonymous

      You’re criticizing Mattingly for starting Abreu and Rivera, but you instead want to start Loney and Uribe?  Do I understand you correctly?

      • Anonymous

        Loney and Uribe support my contention that the Dodgers best team is the one that plays the best defensive players.  If I had inserted Abreu and Rivera after saying the Dodgers can’t hit so they should go with pitching and defense I would have be contradictory.  

        Kind like you were with your comment.

  • foul tip

    Couple things–

    1)  dodgers.com highlights different 2012 team leader stats.  Today’s is BA.  Ethier first at .297….then, shock, Gordon at .229.  “No additional qualifiers,” which follows, is telling.  The lineup has been so beset by injuries and the ABs so spread around that just two have enough. 

    2)  There was a reference lately, also at dodgers.com I think, in which Don said that of the two of Rivera or Loney, Rivera gave “more professional” ABs.  Which probably explains why Rivera has been in as much as he has, even when you’d think Loney would be..  Guess Don doesn’t want to see much more of James trying to hit.

    • Anonymous

      If Juan Rivera is being given the tag of “professional hitter” and James Loney isn’t, and Rivera hits as poorly as he does, I feel sorry for Loney.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713935344 Jason Ungar

         The other night Kemp stayed alive and hit the ball between SS/3b and then Ethier had a good at bat before hitting a homerun..both looked great on TV…and then Rivera came up and not talking numbers, he looked like a pitcher hitting. I swear I though they did some sort of double switch and it really was like Josh Linbloom or something. Just feeble swing out of the zone, off balanced..just pathetic

      • Anonymous

         Both are professional hitters, at least in the sense that they are paid to swing a bat.

  • Anonymous

    RIP, Donald Sobol, the author of the “Encyclopedia Brown” series. 

    The great unanswered question: Did Encyclopedia Brown and Sally Kimball ever date? Did they get married? Or did Sally end up with Bugs Meany?

    • Anonymous

       Never heard of any of them. I do remember George Meany, though.

      • Anonymous

        You don’t even let fictional characters get by without your trademark snark? Which was funny at pretty much no time in recorded human history.

        • Anonymous

          No way Sally ends up with Bugs Meany. But I smell a movie deal.

      • http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

        Your kids never read Encyclopedia Brown? Oh man, essential reading when I was growing up. And for millions of other kids, too. 

        • Anonymous

           Not that I’m aware of.

          • Anonymous

            The Encyclopedia Brown books by Sobol were translated into 12 different languages. Millions of copies were sold. 

          • Anonymous

            This constant “joke” of yours is some bizarre way of belittling people who enjoyed the work of some popular author, or singer, or actor. It is distasteful and shows willful ignorance on your part.
            It’s callous. It’s uncaring. It’s pointless.

            One day, all of us will be dead and gone. I would hope that someone will care when I’m gone.

            I know one person won’t.

          • Anonymous

            I am not joking, nor am I belittling the guy, and I don’t begrudge him his success.

          • KT

            BT…I’m not making a joke but as with WBB I also have never heard of Encyclopedia Brown

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    Any Alvin Fernald fans here?
    http://www.alvinfernald.com/af_books.htm

  • Anonymous

    Any guesses for who’s starting tomorrow, if Bills can’t?  I’m anticipating another Ely callup, since he’s been pitching well and hasn’t started since July 7.  He’s not on the 40-man but Coffey could be moved to the 60-day to free up a spot.

    Fife, who’s already on the 40-man, might be another candidate. He’s scheduled to start tonight for ABQ but watch and see whether he gets scratched.

    Of the guys in Chattanooga, Martin might be the closest, although he’s not on the 40-man yet. He, too, is scheduled to start tonight.

    • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

       I’m guessing Ely but not with 100% confidence.

      • http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

        Of that group, Ely is certainly the most deserving. I still don’t have great faith in him but he’s obviously done something right, has improved greatly since last year, to put up those numbers in the PCL.  As nsx suggests, moving Coffey to 60 day would be one easy move.  The next time this is an issue it could be Ryan Dempster filling in instead. ;)

        • Anonymous

          “Deserving” maybe, but on the other hand it might make sense to see what we have in Fife. As well as Ely has been pitching, we’ve already had a pretty good look at what he can do against MLB bats.

          • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

             Yes, and that includes him being fairly dominant when his control is on. I wouldn’t dismiss that.

          • Anonymous

            Which happened to be exactly one month in his entire career. I think it’s fair to say that one good month when his control was on was not indicative of his true talent.

            That said, he has been doing extremely well and the Dodgers couldn’t go wrong with either Ely or Fife for a spot start.

          • http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

            All the scouting reports I’ve seen on Fife, and what little I’ve seen of him (video of Isotopes games) make me think he’d be more of a BP pitcher than Ely was.  If Ely’s really turned it around, there’s no harm in giving him one start before we declare him clinically dead. Fife is really not one to get hopeful about either, imho.

      • foul tip

         I think they’ve done some mumbling about maybe spot starting Wright.

        That could lead to mumble, mumble, toil, and trouble, though.

        • Anonymous

          Mattingly ruled out Wright in a bullpen game because of the number of pitches he threw Sunday.

          • http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

            I’d also rule him out because he isn’t any good at this point. Hopefully not just me.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ElJefedor Jeffrey Thomas III

      I’m guessing Ely as well. I’ll be at the game with my brother so hopefully whoever it is does well. I’d be pretty disappointed in a Wright spot start. Also Halladay is making his comeback tomorrow, here’s to hoping he is a little rusty.

    • Anonymous

      Incidentally, Bills’s last start was July 7 (same as Ely).  I assume they would put him on the 15-day DL to clear the 25-man spot for whoever (e.g. Ely).  If they put Bills on the 15-day DL retroactively, he would be able to return July 22 or 23.  Because of the off day this Thursday, it’s possible that tomorrow is the only start Bills would miss.

  • http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

    Paging BTimmer and company: The next absolutely guaranteed Dodger win!
    Los Angeles Dodgers ‏@Dodgers: Hello Kitty is coming back to Dodger Stadium! Be here on September 5th to get the second Hello Kitty Item of 2012:

    • Anonymous

      Already purchased a pair of tickets

  • Anonymous

    What was the last note on Lilly? Didn’t he throw off a mound recently?

    • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

       Maybe he ate a Mounds.

      • Anonymous

        So Lilly felt like a nut?

        • Anonymous

          All mound joy

          • Anonymous

            Laugh when it hurts I guess :)

    • Anonymous

      Yahoo says, “LHP Ted Lilly (left shoulder inflammation) went on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to May 24, and he was transferred to the 60-day DL on July 2. An MRI showed no damage, so he won’t need surgery. He played catch for the first time June 22. He threw off a mound on July 8. No timetable has been set for a rehab assignment.”

  • foul tip

    Dunno if this has been here.  But Upton can block trades to 4 teams–NYY, BoSox, Indians, Cubs. 

    He’s under contract through 2015

  • Anonymous

    I understand the team is in a much better place than most fans, and even the mgt, expected this season. What concerns me, as it has for some time, is the lack of an apparent plan. What is the identity of the Dodgers? Are they really pitching and defense with speed sprinkled in? If so, then leave Loney at 1B and Gwynn in LF and Ellis at 2b and Uribe at 3b and hope for the best. I understand the injuries have forced Donnie’s hand quite a bit, but this team needs to just settle in to a normal lineup since Kemp and Ethier are back and find themselves and learn how to win close games again!

    My concern is Ned and the new owners are going to go all in, and this team is at best a wild card roster and certainly not championship quality. Assuming top tier prospects will be involved for something like Dempster or Aramis Ramierez or even Victorino makes little sense. Sure, the team could be the reincarnation of the 1988 Dodgers, but I don’t see it. The best short term move would have been Youkalis, at either 1B or 3B. He would have cost little and would have returned a lot!

    • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

       Is there any reason to believe, with a trade to help boost the roster (say at third base) and a healthy Kemp, Ethier and Kershaw, the Dodgers don’t have a legitimate shot at the World Series in this year’s NL? Should we be so intimidated by Washington, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh or even the Giants?

      This team still might lose 85 games, but I find it hard to criticize a GM for not wanting to give up at this point.

      • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

        And as for the plan, yes, it focuses on pitching and Kemp and Ethier and for the most part defense, and I don’t find it that mysterious, given the resources that existed before the sale.

        When the Dodgers don’t make defensive flubs by the bundle, they are a good NL team. And games like this weekend’s games have been fairly rare.

        • Anonymous

          Defense means playing Loney at first which is less these days. It should mean no more Gordon, we’ll see. And sadly it means playing Uribe more if in fact you believe he’s a valuable defender.

      • Anonymous

        Totally agree. We might get killed by Texas in the WS, but we have as good a chance as anyone I suppose. SF & WASH have nice rotations, but we have Kershaw. No fear.

    • Anonymous

      >> this team is at best a wild card roster and certainly not championship quality.

      That’s what they said about the Cardinals in late September last year.  And a month earlier nobody thought they would make the playoffs.

      • Anonymous

        There are times when such a label is correct. Remember our 2004 pitching staff of Weaver, Odalis and Lima Time. Was that considered a championship team?

  • Anonymous

    My new BFF Jerry Hairston has also batted leadoff (Friday) and 4th (five times) this year.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

    Look…Bobby Abreu isn’t what he used to be…not close…but Tony Gwynn Jr. and his .286 OBP have no business being in the lineup at any time. He is baseball nothingness. Superior defense in LF does not make up the difference between a .364 OBP and a .286 OBP. This is clear cut and shouldn’t even be on the table. Abreu should be in there and should be batting leadoff every day until his legs fall off, if only because there will never be a day in this life when Tony Gwynn Jr. is as good offensively as he is.

    As far as Rivera vs. Loney at 1st is concerned, it’s basically Garbage vs Garbage. Defense at 1st base is normally not a difference maker, but considering the swill we are running out to Shorstop and 3rd every day, perhaps the superior glove at 1st isn’t a bad idea. Play Loney.

    Re: Matt Kemp getting the day off yesterday…unless he is actually feeling physical discomfort in his hamstring, not playing him is non-sensical. Mattingly’s reasons for resting him yesterday are completely counter-intuitive. If a player is coming off an injury and is now healthy, the only way to overcome the natural reticence and tentativeness is to play through it. So…either Matt Kemp is really still hurting and Mattingly is therefore lying…or, Matt Kemp is healthy but rusty, and Mattingly’s dead wrong. Stop thinking so much, Manager Don…you’re hurting the ballclub.

    • Anonymous

      You’re assuming that Gwynn is a true talent 60 wRC+ hitter, which he is not. He is a below-average hitter for sure, but he is much better than how he’s performed so far.

      Last season, Gwynn was worth +1.6 wins to the Dodgers. Abreu was worth +0.4 wins to the Angels while playing much more than Gwynn (WAR is a counting stat). Abreu will hit better than Gwynn until he retires, but Gwynn is already the superior player.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

        I disagree, while respecting the numbers you site, and while supporting the use of anaIytics in baseball, I personally have great difficulties with the defensive aspects of WAR (BR or Fangraphs) particularly the translation to ”runs” and therefore to ”wins”. I do not believe that Gwynn is the superior player, any more than I believe that there’s a 21 run difference between Mike Trout’s defense in Center and Andrew McCutchen’s during 2012. However, I must tell you that enjoy your comments here and I usually learn something from them…

        • Anonymous

          I agree that UZR is a less reliable measure than the traditional or advanced offensive metrics, but I don’t think there is any reason to intuitively reject the idea that there can be a 20, 30, or 40 run differences between two fielders over the course of a season. A regular outfielder will play over a thousand innings. That’s a lot of chances for a bad outfielder to let a ball drop for a hit on plays that an average outfielder makes, and for a good outfielder to catch a ball that an average outfielder cannot make. Think about that weakly hit flyball to RF that Ethier let drop for a hit. A RF with good range gets to that ball and prevents a hit. To me, that’s as good as getting a hit in that same game.

    • Anonymous

      >> Tony Gwynn Jr. and his .286 OBP have no business being in the lineup at any time. He is baseball nothingness. Superior defense in LF does not make up the difference between a .364 OBP and a .286 OBP.

      I think he has value as a late-inning defensive replacement.  If you’re up by a run or two in the late innings, your primary concern is defense.

      He also has value when you want to rest someone for a day.  You can’t play the best/better player every single day.  Especially when they’re 38 years old.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

        Agreed. Excess hyperbole on my part to make a point.

        • Anonymous

          That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

          Just kidding!  I love hyperbole jokes.  And I love when people use the word “hyperbole”.  :)

      • Anonymous

        I disagree with this. Preventing runs is just as important in the early innings as it is in the late innings. Why wouldn’t it be?

        • Anonymous

          It’s situational.  If you already have a lead in the late innings, it’s more important to get those last 3 or 6 outs to win the game; scoring additional runs is less important.  But in the early innings, a small lead can easily disappear (since there are so more innings to play), and if it does, the offense would still be needed.

          • Anonymous

            Of course in the late innings the value of an out increase, as the game is shortened, but the reason a team is ahead or behind in the late innings is because runs were scored or prevented in the early innings. Of course, the use of the bullpen and PHs, etc. will influence things, but I think much of the premium we place on the late innings is psychological more than anything (just like we think games late in the season matter more than early in the season).

            In my view, defensive replacements are used late in the game because the batting order is static and we know that certain batters are unlikely to come to the plate again.

    • Anonymous

      >> As far as Rivera vs. Loney at 1st is concerned, it’s basically Garbage vs Garbage. Defense at 1st base is normally not a difference maker, but considering the swill we are running out to Shorstop and 3rd every day, perhaps the superior glove at 1st isn’t a bad idea. Play Loney.

      Until we find someone better, I like platooning them, with Loney against righties, Rivera against southpaws.  Their OPS is almost identical against same-handed and opposite-handed pitchers:

      Loney 2012 OPS vs RHP: .663
      Loney 2012 OPS vs LHP: .589
      Rivera 2012 OPS vs RHP: .601
      Rivera 2012 OPS vs LHP: .676

      So a platoon is a little less garbagey than letting one of them play every day.  Still not great, but…

      • Anonymous

        That’s the least worst option in my opinion as well. 

  • Anonymous

    Anybody ever played “Taboo?” ….

    I think it’s the game where you try to get your partner to say one thing, but there are certain words which are “taboo”…. so, you can’t say them….

    So, who do you guys think we can / should target at the trade deadline?

    “Taboo”  …… (because I’d let these guys remain somebody else’s bad contract)
    1.  Aramis Ramirez
    2.  Ryan Dempster
    3.  Matt Garza
    4.  Marco Scutaro

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    Report: The Phillies to offer Hamels $120 million. It still won’t be enough.

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/16/report-the-phillies-to-offer-hamels-120-million-it-still-wont-be-enough/
     

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

      Someone is going to greatly overpay Hamels. It doesn’t really matter how great he has pitched or will continue to pitch. A starting pitcher…any starting pitcher…will simply not bring as much value as a similarly talented every day player. And they carry a far higher injury risk. When you sign a Hamels, it’s almost axiomatic that at some point you’ll be saying “ok, this is sunk cost”. That’s not to say I WOULDN’T sign Hamels if I were the Dodgers. Actually, I believe I might. It’s just that you go in knowing that his price will be articially high due to the fevered market…and it’s not really the pay for one player that counts, it’s the total return you get on your TOTAL payroll that counts.

      • Anonymous

        >> A starting pitcher…any starting pitcher…will simply not bring as much value as a similarly talented every day player.

        Eight of the 18 highest paid players this year are starting pitchers.  Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_paid_baseball_players

        • Anonymous

          A starting pitcher has more impact on a game’s outcome than any other player on the team (at least every five days).  If he does his job to perfection, his team wins by scoring just one run, something that happens, what, 90 percent of the time?.  If he does his job exceptionally, the team still wins by scoring two runs, something that happens maybe 75% of the time.  If he does his job very very well, they win by scoring three runs which happens more often than not.

          Contrast that with a batter. If he does his job to perfection (four homers in four ABs), his team scores a minimum of four runs, enough to win most games.  But say he just hits four singles, or even three singles and a double. Unless his teammates are also hitting, he might not score any runs.  That’s what everybody was afraid would be the case with the 2012 Dodgers: 200 hits from Matt Kemp, and another 200 from the rest of the team combined.   

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

          “Eight of the 18 highest paid players this year are starting pitchers.”…This just proves that baseball organizations are willing to overpay.

          “Last year three of the top 4 players in WAR (wins above replacement) were starting pitchers.”…Even accepting the value of WAR for pitchers (and I have some problems with the definition of “replacement level” as it applies to pitchers) the value of even a great pitcher working every 5th day cannot exceed the value of a great hitter present in the lineup EVERY day and increasing the likelihood of a win by EVERY pitcher ( there is also the admittedly unproven effect the great hitter has on the entire lineup)…the great hitter is at least as valuable and probably more so. Given a choice between Albert Pujols at his peak and Roy Halladay at his…I take Pujols.

          • Anonymous

            >> the value of even a great pitcher working every 5th day cannot exceed the value of a great hitter present in the lineup EVERY day

            That’s absolutely NOT TRUE, and the numbers support it.  The best hitters are worth 7-8 additional wins per year, and the best pitchers are worth 7-8 additional wins per year.  Sure, hitters spread out their influence over some 150+ games, but the average difference they make in any one game is relatively small.  (That’s *on average*; they have some great games, but many more that are not.) A great pitcher can make a huge difference every time he pitches.  That’s how you have pitchers with winning records for teams with losing records.  IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

            Harumph. Well, I guess you told me.

    • Anonymous

      We don’t know how many years that figure represents.

      Santana got 6 years, $23MM/year.  That’s the same ballpark Tim Dierkes predicts (“I’m guessing Hamels would have his eye on a contract worth $23-25MM annually over six-plus years, if he reaches free agency.”).

      If Hamels wants to stay in Philadelphia, I would expect him to sign for a little less than elsewhere.  $120 million for six years sounds like a reasonable offer for an extension, and for five years sounds generous in dollars, not so much in length (and sounds like the Cliff Lee extension).  If he doesn’t care where he plays and he’s only looking at money, then he should become a free agent, in which case I think Dierkes is accurate.  I think someone out there would probably be willing to give him eight years at that $23-25MM level, just to land him.  Maybe even 9-10 years.  Remember, in a long-term contract like that, he probably won’t be worth the big bucks in the last few years of the contract, but that’s part of the expense of getting him to sign.  Think of the Pujols and Fielder contracts. And that’s how players maximize their income, by guaranteeing themselves high salaries including later years when they probably won’t be worth it.

      • Anonymous

        Santana was a much better pitcher though. I don’t think anyone is crazy enough to give Hamels 9-10 years at $23 mil. per annum.

        • Anonymous

          Hamels’ numbers the past few years are every bit as good as Santana’s were.

          You can call it “crazy”, but one team was “crazy” enough to give Albert Pujols a 10-year contract that paid him $30 million for his age 41 season.  Again, it’s not that he’s expected to be worth that much that year, but rather, that they wanted to sign him and expect the value in the signing to be in the early years of the contract.

          If Hamels does not sign an extension by the end of the season, I would be shocked if he didn’t get at least eight years in his new contract.

          • Anonymous

            Hamels had a good run but his numbers are still below Santana’s level at the time Santana inked his extension. And he got to face the pitcher while pitching in a division that was relatively weak until this season.

            RE: crazy contracts–10 years for Pujols is not something I would’ve done, but it isn’t as crazy as giving Hamels 10 years. For one thing, it’s not unprecedented: A-Rod signed two of them. Moreover, Pujols is one of the greatest baseball players ever. Hamels is not even close to that.

            Hamels will probably have to go by Matt Cain’s extension as his comp, probably get a little more since he’s going on the market.

  • Anonymous

    For those interested in how Zach Lee is doing, not so great at the moment.  Last night he had his second stinker out of four appearances since being called up to Chattanooga (2.1 IP 7 H 3 BB 8 ER).

    • Anonymous

      Lee and whoever the other prospect mentioned in trade to the Padres (was it Gould?) for Chase Headley and Carlos Quentin. We’d still have money to go after a firstbaseman who can hit a little…

      • Anonymous

        There are no reports of any trade with the Padres, and any such trade is unlikely.  Especially the idea of them trading their two best starting MLB players for two prospects.

        • Anonymous

          No, no reports, but there were rumors. So there was speculation from some source or other. I have no qualms on trading prospects, especially pitchers, because they fail so often and are more prone to injury.

    • http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

      As suggested (joked about) by TBLA blogger earlier today, Lee was just doing his part to make sure he stays in the organization. ;)

      It’s also a tad early to think a couple of bad starts in AA after his promotion = Lee is doomed. Lots of subsequently good ML pitchers had some rough times after being moved up a level, at first.  I will say his drop in FB velocity (at times) is a little bit of concern with him but one of his selling points has been less his power and more that he has a mature mix of pitches given his age. 

  • Anonymous

    Tonight’s lineup: Hairston 3B, Mark Ellis 2B, Kemp CF, Ethier RF, Rivera LF, Loney 1B, Cruz SS, AJ Ellis C, Eovaldi P

    • Anonymous

       Uribe-free!

      • Anonymous

        Unless we trade for a LF or 3B or 1B I think this should be our everyday lineup. No more Uribe, no more Gordon. Abreu and Gwynn sit and wait to PH and play LF late in the game.

  • http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

    Good news about Billingsley. Was worried about need for TJ at first. 

    LA Times Baseball ‏@latimesbaseball:  #Dodgers’ Billingsley says 2nd MRI today again showed some inflammation, cleared to resume light throwing. Not sure when next start might be

  • Anonymous

    According to MLBTR, the Red Sox are pursuing Dumpster aggressively.

  • Anonymous

    If we have the money to sign Hamels, then go get him with all we’ve got on the farm, and maybe even EO if there are no other major pitching prospects in the deal.  I still don’t see Dempster as a solution, although losing Bills or any pitcher for a long time would be bad with the lack of arms we have in AAA and AA.  Get a bat or a relief pitcher if you want to bring in a rent a player for a few months.  they will have more impact.

    • Anonymous

       I think Dumpster would be a short-term positive, but he’s not a long-term solution to anything.

  • Anonymous

    Remember how I said to watch for Fife’s and Martin’s starts tonight, to see who might be scratched so they could come up for tomorrow night’s start?

    MSTI is now reporting that Fife has been scratched for tonight.  IMHO this makes the chances of him starting for the Dodgers tomorrow night over 80 percent.

  • Anonymous

    When did Ely last pitch?

    • Anonymous

      July 7.

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman
  • Anonymous

    >>i’m embarrassed to say this but i didn’t realize DS was going to have a Kirk Gibson bobble head night July 31st. From my childhood there isn’t a more defining baseball moment than that, the entire season was magical, that was just the cherry on top & it showed the nation what all angelinos  were witnessing all season long, if i can & if it isn’t sold out yet, i have to be there man. 

    just got my ticks. i honestly can’t believe there are still tickets for this!!

    • KT

      All kinds of tickets available…I was looking at tickets then I realized my daughters going back to school on the 25th and this a school night and about a 2 hour drive home…can’t do it

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    NPUT