June 23 game chat

Posted on June 23, 2012 by Jon Weisman

Dodgers at Angels, 4:15 p.m.
Dee Gordon, SS
Jerry Hairston Jr., 2B
Andre Ethier, RF
Bobby Abreu, DH
Juan Rivera, LF
James Loney, 1B
Elian Herrera, CF
Juan Uribe, 3B
A.J. Ellis, C
(Chris Capuano, P)

http://profile.yahoo.com/SYDWYEU5E2AHKGVMAZAHE2JDPY Yolanda

Wow..We deserved to lose this game no-thanks to Billingsley and the
idiotic management allowing this loser of a pitcher to even step on the
mound. Uribe, Kennedy, Loney have got to go and Gordon needs to go back
down to 3A as he is not ready for the prime time. Tonight’s loss was
PATHETIC…we had the damn game! I hate expressing this but the midgets
did what we could not do tonight..comeback.***Seriously Dodgers, it’s
time to step up your game against these wack-ass angels..You would think
that Mattingly or somebody in management would already know how to deal
with anaheim already after all the ass-kickings we’ve had to endure..I
DON’T even want to imagine us going toe-to-toe with anaheim in the post
season…I’ll leave that scary thought right there.***TIME TO CLEAN
HOUSE NEW OWNERS..WE WANT TO WIN!

Anonymous

uh. first place. best record in NL. sorry can’t clean house just yet. a selective DFA would be ok though.

Anonymous

Ahhh…good perspective.

http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

Name all the pitchers who are available who would be more talented and clearly better than Billingsley.

{crickets sound}

Bills is this year’s Broxton. The guy who is frustrating but who some fans will never be satisfied until they’re tarred and feathered.

Not sure why I’m responding to this, though. Mea culpa.

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

I’m OK with Billingsley as long as you don’t call him a No. 2 or good No. 3. Every team needs a solid No. 4 pitcher. They’ve got enough to win the division but are woefully short on any playoff run.

Anonymous

LA went and added three Angels, Abreu, Kennedy, and Rivera to stop the bleeding. Anymore Halos you want, Yolanda?

Anonymous

4:05????
I’m glad I saw NPUT

http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

4:15 actually

http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

I can live with worrying about what will happen if we have to face the Angels in the postseason.
Anonymous

I had thought that Ol’ Dee was slowly turning a corner. Before the past 5 games getting skunked, with the losses compounding the everyone’s discontent, he was working on the third consecutive month of improvement with close to an OPS .650. Small thing, but let’s hope he gets back on track.

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

I think the entire Dee Gordon situation is an interesting call and one in which i think Don Baseball has made a courageous decision. But even someone like me now believes Dee should be moved to the back of the lineup for his own sanity if nothing else.

Anonymous

Yes, certainly no reason to preclude making that move.

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

But I still believe every game he plays now will benefit the dodgers sooner than later. he’s such an unusual talent. That they’ve had this cushion has been a luxury but now it’s time. The only knock i have on Gordon at this point is really a knock on the Dodger organization. How could Dee get this far without learning how to bunt well?

Anonymous

Back of the lineup in AAA, maybe. He has no business playing everyday in the majors.

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

we can agree to disagree.

Anonymous

Freeway World Series. This is FINALLY the year it happens. And then hell freezes over : )

KT

I know what your trying to do Craig and it’s not going to work…No more reverse jinx…I’m on to you

http://underdog.typepad.com/ underdog

Game is blacked out here, alas. So I may wait to watch it tonight on MLBTV archives. But good luck to the Los Angeles Dodgers of Los Angeles!

Meanwhile for those who will be watching, apparently Ken Rosenthal will have a Youkilis rumors update at 4:00 p.m. on FOX Which probably won’t say much new but you never know.

Anonymous

Callaspo could be the answer to the Dodgers 3B prayers in ’13-’14, though
Anonymous

On MLB channel apparently the Chi Sox have the inside track. We will see.

KT

Can’t believe they are showing Yankees / Mets in San Diego

Anonymous

Lucky

Anonymous

Good start Dee
Anonymous

Early run, (don’t get too excited), but its a good start !
http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

That was an unusually weak at bat for Abreu.
Anonymous

Though I think Dee is faster, I think Trout is a better baserunner: especially after seeing him score from first on a single last night.
Anonymous

1 real hit that inning, can’t live off errors.
Anonymous

2 errors and a wild pitch, we’ll take it
KT

Good inning Chris…Hate that I don’t have “eyes” for this game
Anonymous

Dee stares at three straight strikes, doesn’t even swing.
http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

Tragic Illness was beating its dead horse called C Cap is overrated this season and Billingsley is under rated according to the STATS. and basically they’ve had a similar season. And WINS don’t mean ANYTHING. it shows the utter nonsense of some stat analysis. Billingsley is a talented underachiever. C Cap has little stuff but he knows how to pitch. an overachiever. On the field that turns out to make quite a difference. You can’t lose smarts and competitiveness. and you can’t teach it. Tragic finally did admit that if he’d had one game to win he’d probably choose C Cap. Oh really. So would every baseball person on earth. the stats would mean almost nothing in making that choice. C CAP is not a great pitcher and will never be. but he gives you a much better chance of winning than C Bills. he starts ahead of billingsley in the playoffs why? Because he’s the obvious choice. not the statistical choice.

Anonymous

I agree

Anonymous

Warning track power, sad sad sad

Anonymous

I suppose one could say that anytime anybody hits a ball to the track.

Anonymous

That should count as a hit for most of the guys on the team

Anonymous

Steinered again!
Anonymous

For many years, I have had to hang on to the good Dodger pitchers being the biggest hope and help between bad times and the good of sucess–sometimes all the way to the Championship!! In ’88 and “81 I think we made it! Now great pitching has got us there, but balance and youth might get us there again!!..
http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/ Linkmeister

Coming in late and looking at how the Dodgers scored, Gameday must be wrong. It tells me Gordon singled, stole second, and scored a run.

I thought he was useless and had to be sent back to Triple A as soon as possible.

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

not everyone shares that opinion.

Anonymous

6 out of 7 to the NL so far today, I hope that trend continues (except for one particular game – and I don’t mean ours!)

http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/ Linkmeister

That’s the game I’ve got on Big Fox. Gomes just homered to make it 4-2 As. Bumgarner’s given up a passel of hits (7 or so far.

Adam Luther

IF R.A. Dickey can get through NYY, then next up…Dodgers as he chases Drysdale/Bulldog, would have 49 straight going in…
KT

Come on DP
Anonymous

This is remarkable!! I can’t seem to get this game on my “Extra Innings’ package, which I had begun to feel was perfect, and invunerable.!! If this is a hole and I can’t get it—-maybe they can also win—and break thespell.. LETS HOPE SO!!
Anonymous

Wow! Nice plays by Gordon and Herrera!

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

the play by gordon doubles up everyone in league other than trout. that was a great play

Anonymous

Very close. They should have given it to him just for the effort, ha.
http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

dee gordon is such a phenomenal baseball talent you just have to play him. even raw he can take over an mlb games.

KT

Dee starting it off!!!
KT

Jerry!! way to get it back guys
KT

not a highlight yet from LA on Fox…Hate them the only time I don’t get to see the Dodgers

Anonymous

It’s on Fox Deportes in Spanish if you have that channel. I am also getting the Yankees vs Mets game on regular Fox.

KT

No I just checked my Directv channels and it’s only offered on Fox west HD but since I have a local fox channel in San Diego I can’t get the west channel

KT

Nice Dre

Come on Bobby
http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

this is as bad as abreu has looked since coming to the dodgers. probably just coming down to earth.

KT

So his bomb to RF yesterday didn’t count?

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

talking about his 3 at bats today. he has been a very strong situational hitter for the dodgers. didn’t expect those two weak efforts from him with men on base. unlike what he’s done.

KT

Ok…I’m without today…only have ESPN Gameday…This is my 3rd game this year where I don’t get to watch

Christopher Staaf

Me too; I don’t understand the blackout when one, I have MLB. tv and the Blue game isn’t on this area. Just makes no sense.

Anonymous

Damn angels abreu and rivera

Anonymous

Please note Rule 1, and let’s keep the dialogue civil.

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

are you talking to me?

Anonymous

No, you’ve been very measured and logical in what you have you written. I’m talking about “bad” language which doesn’t bother me in speech, but it’s Jon’s blog and he asks other to comply with his rules. It’s rarely an issue.

Anonymous

LOL, darn you former angels abreu and Rivera, oh gosh

Anonymous

Please note Rule No. 7.

Anonymous

Pleast note Rule No. 4. Lol jk. My bad earlier.
Anonymous

OK. I think certain players deserve criticism – my comments about Uribe may sometimes broach Rule No. 8 – but rather than just dismissive cursing, let’s try to explain ourselves a little better.

Anonymous

Wow terrible call
Christopher Staaf

That’s how you fight Cappy. Very good 7 innings.
Anonymous

Do not waste this start dodgers, resist the urge
http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

I bet all the stat boys and girls are going crazy with their C CaP is so lucky. he can’t pitch they just happen to be catching them, etc. blah blah blah. C Cap is a competitor. CBills would have been done in the 5th inning. Heart and Brains can’t be simulated in some stat. some guy at tragic today said the least valuable measure is heart. well if you don’t know what it is when you see it then yeah it’s useless to YOU.

Christopher Staaf

I agree that intangibles cannot be quantified. Cappy might be working on mostly guile and experience instead of pure stuff but it works for him. Also, let’s not make Cappy look like just some guy who’s done nothing. He recovered from several major surgeries and has made an All Star team before. I would like to think Cappy could rub off on Bills.

http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

kershaw said in his on camera interview that he’s learned stuff from watching C Cap.

Christopher Staaf

A Cy Young award winner said that then Bills better take notes as well. Cappy’s been around and I am sure he knows a few things.

http://www.facebook.com/cpmariovaladez Mario Valadez Manriquez

You are the horse Capuano!!
Anonymous

way to pitch Beli!
Anonymous

Kenley better be getting those strike calls when he comes in
KT

Yes that’s 1
KT

That’s two
Anonymous

Hahahah eat it Anaheim!
Christopher Staaf

Good win men. Now let’s take the series tomorrow.

KT

there you go…I second that motion

KT

I feel so much better today than I’ve felt in a while…Thank you Dodgers

Anonymous

What, since our last win (lucky we weren’t on a 10 game losing streak!)

KT

I always feel just that much better on a day/night that we win

Anonymous

still only 4 hits, but a win is a win !

KT

oh John quite with the negativity man…”kelly’s Heroes” ^_^

http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/ Linkmeister

Another Saturday win, too.

Anonymous

It’s Sunday here though

http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/ Linkmeister

Grins. John, all due respect, but you’re an outlier down there in the Antipodes. Hoist a 4X for me, willya?

Anonymous

Now that’s more like it. Great to end a losing streak and made even better by beating the Anaheim Angels of Orange County. Pitching and defense sure came through today. Great game for Dee.
Yeah, sure, send him down….. lol
KT

Just found out I won’t have the Dodgers next Saturday also….Get to see the rocks vs the pods…Yea

Anonymous

Well if it leads to a win, who knows, might be good luck lol

KT

well how do you all the other Saturday wins I have watched this season…everyone of them but todays

foul tip

Jamie Moyer asks for and gets his release from the Orioles, as per his contract stating he’d start 3 times in the minors, then be promoted or released. They offered him a 4th minor league start, despite his 1.69 or so ERA.

Quick–take away Ned’s cell and Blackberry or whatever else he uses! If anyone is a PVL, it’s a 49 year old. ;-])

Anonymous

Moyer or Billingsley, tough call.

Jibin Park

Glad I got to go to today’s game in Anaheim…. otherwise, I would have been upset not being able to have watched the game on Fox. It was truly the Dee Gordon show tonight with a little help from Albert Pujols.

I’m of the ilk that Gordon shouldn’t be leading off based on sabermetric measures but man. When he gets on and can hit gappers, Gordon is the most exciting player in baseball. And I’m convinced Herrera’s catch if it weren’t caught would have hit the top of the fence and gone over. Sitting in Loge Terrace 201, that was an AWESOME play!
Anonymous

Hi all. Recently found this great fan site and just wanted to introduce myself briefly. I’m a Dodger fan from Australia (Brisbane for anyone familiar with the country). Really gotten into the game of Baseball over the last couple of years since my first trip o/s to the States. Now follow the Dodgers as much as possible despite being on the wrong side of the world from a timezone perspective! Still learning the stats involved in the game which are incredible compared to any other sport I have followed. But love the insight I get from reading comments on this forum…

Anonymous

Welcome to Dodger Thoughts. Look out everyone, us Aussies will soon take over!

Anonymous

How ’bout finding some down under prospects not named Craig Shipley?
KT

^_^

Anonymous

Hello Jayman, most games start at the end of the day and finish the next day here on the east coast of USA. I often watch the first inning and then watch the rest the next day using lots of fast forward.

Anonymous

I am an Eastcoaster like Bummy, so I do that. But I also travel to Indonesia a lot, so often in the same boat as you. Welcome to DT!

http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

Welcome!

Anonymous

Oh Dee Do!
Anonymous

Just how far off might he be? Those five games and the 17-0 stinker by Dee are in the books and illustrate his weaknesses, but without them his month of June has produced an OPS of around .705, which is pretty close to NL average of .716. Now, if he could just learn not to hit the ball in the air, bunt and take a walk…

Anonymous

If you took away the bottom quarter from everyone’s results I’m pretty sure NL average would be well above .716. Last night aside, the fact that even an extremely selective look at Dee’s results has him below average is discouraging if anything.

58% of Dee’s batted balls are grounders. Dee’s problem isn’t that he’s hitting too many flyballs. It’s that he can’t hit the ball hard enough that it gets by the pitcher.

Anonymous

Actually, if I do the same cherry-picking for the month of April, Dee ends up far below average.

http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

NPUT
Anonymous

Anybody recall Alfredo’s OPS in 1988? If Gordon plays solid defense his offense is a bonus. He is a rook, and he’s going to make some rook bonehead plays, but he has the ability to make plays no other Dodger SS in my lifetime can even fantasize about, other than maybe Furcal. Balls he gets to easily were not in the same area code as Russell, who never dove for a ball once, that I can recall. BTW, without looking it up, I believe answer was in the 580′s.

Anonymous

After looking it up, I was wrong. It was worse, a whopping 513! OPS+ of FIFTY. And as I recall ’88 turned out OK. Give the kid some time. I want to yell at him through the TV at times myself. But in the long term, he is going to be a star. BTW, the great wizard of Oz was in his 8th full season before his OPS reached 700.

Anonymous

Dee doesn’t play anything close to solid defense. Since his debut, Dee has played 124 games and cost the team ~15 runs with his defense. Dee would have to hit like Derek Jeter if he wants to earn his keep.

You seem to believe Ozzie Smith’s first 8 seasons were spent in offensive mediocrity. That is not so. He was consistently in the top 10 among qualifying shortstops, sometimes much higher. Dee Gordon? Next to last among qualifying shortstops so far.

Dee is not a star-in-the-making who just needs some time. He is a flawed prospect who got pushed into the starting role because the club understandably didn’t want to pay Furcal. He has never shown anything close to star potential, and based on the results it’s doubtful he will make it as a useful backup.

Anonymous

Ozzie made 25 errors his rookie season. In his first 4 full seasons, his OBP was NEVER higher than .313. Pretty hard to not be top 10 in the league when their were only 12 teams in each league then. We will simple agree to disagree.

Anonymous

Top 10 in the majors and with wRC+ in the high 80s only about 12-15% below league average. Gordon, on the other hand, is about 60% below league average. Even if Gordon improves, he will still be one of the worst baseball players in the league, until he inevitably begins to decline at the age of 28 or so.

You refer to Ozzie Smith’s 25 errors as if that proves Gordon will get better at fielding. Go look at his career numbers season by season. Or look at any random SS. Fld % is not one of those skills that gradually increase as a player matures.
http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

Your stats don’t mean anything at this stage of gordon’s development.