Take me out to the movie

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If Jack Norworth and Albert Von Tilzer had been differently inspired:

Take me out to the movie
Take me out with the crowd
Buy me some popcorn and Cracker Jack
I don’t care if I ever get back
Let me root, root, root for the protagonist
If he doesn’t complete the hero’s journey it’s a shame
For it’s lights, camera, action – and cut
At the ol’ movie.

  • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

    I remember when I used to go to movies. It was just a couple years ago when they made more than 2 or 3 a year that I was willing to pay money for. What up with that Mr.Variety. i know the theater owners are mad because their bottom lines have been affected by me not eating pacific ocean sized amounts of popcorn. it forced me to break that addiction almost cold turkey. it was rough.

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    I think there are several movies worth seeing each year – they’re just rarely the obvious, most-advertised ones.  You just have to be willing to find them.

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      i just saw the moonrise movie. didn’t want to really go. but i did and found it very clever however award winning not so sure.

    • Anonymous

      In the last month my wife and I saw People Like Us and Seeking a Friend for the End of the World. Both were somewhat flawed but I thought well worth admission.

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        my tastes are not summer blockbusterish but i have to tell you the end of the big budget movie for me was cowboys and aliens. i thought, wow, a fun idea. use all that hollywood money and do a smash up around that idea. the potential fun seemed endless. and then i went and saw it. damn did they spend all their brain power on the name?

        normally i would have applauded the fun idea of making Abe Lincoln into a vampire killer. but i knew it would be cowboys and aliens all over again. 

    • Anonymous

      Sadly for the theater owners, they are, to my taste anyway, movies that don’t require the theater experience.  They can be seen just as well on dvd on the smaller screen. 

  • Anonymous

    I was excited about “Prometheus”.  Alas, ’twas a turd.

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    I saw “Beasts of the Southern Wild” last night and thought it was absolutely stunning. 

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      thanks i’ll look it up.

  • KT

    I have seen 2 movies in last 20+ years they were Cars and Brave. It takes a lot to get me to go to a movie theater.
     
    I have a very acute sense of smell. Candle, Spice and Perfume stores give me an immediate migrane until I step outside and breath “non scented” air for a while. Popcorn does the same thing to me
     
    I love watching movies and sports so that’s why I have an 80″ TV with surround sound to help give me the movie theater effect.
     
    It’s not quite the same but it’s close enough and I don’t have to suffer through the sitting. 

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      80” – that’s what I’m talking about. well done KT.

    • Anonymous

      Wow!  Don’t think I could take watching 80″ of Uribe whiffing.   And, from now on you make the call (no more second-guessing you on disputed plays).

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        yes bob he is now obviously THE MAN. i was questioning him on his critique of elian playing that ball in the right field corner. I now take every bit of that back.

        • KT

          I had more trouble with everyone saying his 1st play in LF was an excellent catch when he obviously missed played the ball into a much tougher catch than a direct route

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            mattingly says his best position is 3b. hopefully he’ll play him there as hairston’s backup

      • KT

        Yea it’s tough watching Juan
         
        depending on which part of the theater seating couch, I’m 7′-9′ from the TV

      • Anonymous

        Does Uribe fit completely on an 80 inch screen?

    • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

       My grandmother would not sit next to us at the movies if we ordered popcorn.

      • KT

        I know how she feels

  • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

    and don’t get me started on the dragon tatoo. what a great 3-book story. the small budget european movies were superior in almost every way to the hollywood version. granted they had 3 movies to tell the tale in. but the way hollywood gashed that story was heart breaking.

    • Anonymous

      I ain’t gunna ask you how you liked Moneyball, the movie or the book.

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        HaHa. I liked the book. That author does good work. No didn’t need to see the movie. 

        Despite what it appears I like numbers and find statistics very useful in business. But numbers with no context are one of the most dangerous things in the world. I’ve had a lot of youngsters try to impress/persuade me with numbers in business. numbers with context and reasoned answers and understanding the situation in which they were developed makes all the difference between being broke and having a profitable business model.

  • Anonymous

    My theater days as an adult were dominated by taking my daughter to the movies, from Beauty and the Beast through to Twilight.  Now that she is out of the house its mainly confined the small screen on long flights.  During the trips going back home I tend to become emotional and have to be careful of what I watch.  Can remember crying all the way back across the Pacific from viewing Never Let Me Go.

    • Anonymous

      Sounds like our kids are roughly the same age as this would be my set of movies too, though I couldn’t bring myself to accompany them to any Twilight movies. 
       
      Thus, my image is shattered as I always believed you were the pitcher from the mid-60′s. :)

  • Jack Dawkins

    John from Aus, which team’s batting do you find more lacking at the moment, Dodgers, or the Aus ODI team?

    • Anonymous

      dead heat tie!

  • Anonymous

    The last movie I went to the theater to see was “The Hunger Games” – entertaining but not great. My 9- year old daughter and I had both read the series, and of course she LOVED the movie – it was her “FAVE”. But then she LOVES all movies she goes to – my wife took her and her 6 yr old sister to see Brave the other day and yep, now Brave is the new FAVE! Next up is Spiderman – sure to top all the rest in my daughter’s eyes.

    • Anonymous

      I saw the first 90 minutes of The Hunger Games on a plane, but then the flight landed, so I didn’t get to see the ending until my return trip.  I wish I had just stopped watching after the first flight, as the last hour was so full of holes and stupid plot twists that it almost ruined the entire experience. 

      • Anonymous

        Yeah, my daughter saw some older kids at school reading the book and of course wanted to read it. The wife said no because of the whole kids killing kids thing. Consequently, while not my 1st (or second or third choice) I agreed to read the book to see if it was too brutal for a 8-yr old to read – I decided my daughter was mature enough for it.

    • Anonymous

      My youngest refused to see the movie for fear it would ruin the book for her.

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    How would ‘Beasts of the Southern Wild’ fared at the last Oscars?

    http://bit.ly/LdpeG3

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      Hmmm Beast not being shown where i’m currently at

  • Jack Dawkins

    When I go out to the movies these days, its for a known quantity at the Egyptian most likely.  The Good the Bad and the Ugly appeals a week from Friday there. 

    Capuano would be the Good, Loney the Bad, and Uribe the Ugly?

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      sabre folk truly believe Capuano was lucky and that he’s certain to crash the second half.

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        sadly that probably will happen because he pitched so well it would be hard to duplicate.

      • foul tip

        Tho I don’t qualify as sabre folk, maybe not crash. Just not likely to do quite as well, likely to fall more in line with standard performance level. But I’d like nothing more than for him to top first half. 

        Folks so sure he’s going to fall off may not be considering that he added a curve to his arsenal this season.  Don was complimentary of it in ST.  Dunno how much he uses it, but it has to be in hitters’ heads that it may appear.  Helps him work both sides of the plate, I think.

        There also was mention that before he was signed some in the Dodger organization thought his stuff would work well at DS.  If so, give those folks a raise, no matter what happens second half.

  • Anonymous

    Ethier set for rehab assignment.

    • Anonymous

       Where? For how long?

      • Anonymous

         I think he’s in RC wed and thur.  Too hot for me.

        • Anonymous

           RC plays in San José toward the end of next month. I may go to one of those.

  • foul tip

    Here’s what every kid who collected baseball cards wishes he could find amid relatives’ belongings:

    http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-07-10/baseball-cards-discovered-ty-cobb-cy-young-honus-wagner-millions?eadid=EL/SICOM&sct=hp_t2_a8

    Wonder how many stories there are of kids who sold their cards and now regret it, whose mommas got tired of them and threw them away, or who just plain old have no idea what happened to them?
    To a degree I belong to categories 1 and 3.  But my packrat Momma never threw away a single thing of mine…..or much of hers, either.  Fortunately I still have some of my better ones.

    Also, in my case, got snookered in some trades by an older neighborhood kid with an extensive collection.  Got older and wiser and made up some ground on him, but not all.  Early on was way too impressed that this guy with the big collection even wanted anything I had.

    Could be worse, though.  Could be a kid now and get snookered with several Juan Uribes and 3 or 4 Juan Pierres, Adam Kennedys, and others who shall not be mentioned.  That might have been enough to stop me from being a baseball fan…        ;-])

    This find probably won’t be news to Josh Wilker.
    ——————————–
    Edit: Glancing back at the story, noticed a fitting date for this treasure to be found–Feb. 29.

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      i’m sure i still have a box of baseball cards from the 60s. 

  • Anonymous

    We’re Saved111 
    Dodgers Acquire Osvaldo Martinez

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      ned does like him some AAA depth

    • Anonymous

      BR says he went to Porterville JC. I’m driving the OM bandwagon.

  • foul tip
  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

    I’ve actually gone to the movies three times in the last year: Moonrise Kingdom, Bernie, and Midnight in Paris…I enjoyed them all tremendously. For me though, the availability of everything within a few months on HBO, Showtime, or Starz kind of undermines the urgency.

    Another factor: the absolute excellence of so many of the shows on television today….and the fact that most of the good ones are in a serial format, where you don’t want to miss an episode.

    And finally, during the summer, the Dodgers. I travel a great deal on business (in fact, I’m on the road now), so when I’m home, I tend to open up a good Malbec or Cab and then try to make sense out of Chad Billingsley…now THAT is what I call drama…  :)

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    It was stats folk who championed the Capuano signing because his strikeout rate belied his high ERA.

    Mike Petriello wrote that the performances of Billingsley and Capuano
    were more similar than just their ERAs would indicate, with BABIP
    helping explain the difference. Nowhere does he, nor anyone else I’ve
    seen, say that Capuano is certain to crash in the second half.
     

    http://bit.ly/PNMjBU

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      well in what i’ve read i will have to disagree. i read it all the time it seems. 

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        i did read at the time  why the dodger new stat guy liked him. but to say tragic illness like it is in my opinion rewriting history

        • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

           Show me where Mike says Capuano is certain to crash.

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            well i’m still working on your incorrect assertion that stat folks celebrated the C Cap signing:

            Worse, the age trend here is terrifying.  Kennedy is 36 in January. Matt Treanor is 36 in March. Hairston turns 36 in May, which is also when Harang is 34. Ellis is 35 in June. Juan Rivera will be 34 in July. Chris Capuano is 34 in August. That’s seven signings (assuming Harang arrives), and not a single one younger than Capuano. This group is also combining for something around $18.5m in 2011, and with backloading, it could be over $26m in 2013.
            So sure, welcome aboard, Jerry. Sorry you’re getting blowback because you happen to be another in a series of questionable decisions by a general manager whose moves are increasingly difficult to reconcile.
            In Jerry Hairston 69 Replies

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            I could do analysis on this signing, but I basically did that already yesterday, pointing out that Capuano had a surprisingly decent 2011 despite a massive longball problem that rendered him all but unplayable outside the forgiving CitiField, so let’s get right to the jokes. Of which there are many.
            Eric Stephen, TrueBlueLA:
            Would rather have Kuroda back and have the Dodgers literally sign nobody else this offseason than what they have done
            Kevin Goldstein, Baseball Prospectus:
            I’m far more offended by any team giving Chris Capuano decent coin than a closer contract.
            Chris St. John, Steal of Home:Was expecting 1-2 years, 3-4 million. 2/10 is so badNow I’ll say this for Capuano, he’s not an awful guy to have at the back of your rotation. Dinger rate aside, he was able to miss some bats last year, and while 2/$10m sounds like a lot for a mediocre guy in his 30s with two zippers on his elbow

        • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

          perhaps this is what you mean:

          If it seems like Harang was better at 31 in 2009 than he was at 33 in 2011, well, I wouldn’t have much to argue with you on there. So what’s the big difference? Ah yes: 6-14, 4.21, vs 14-6, 3.64. It’s amazing what superficial stats (and Petco Park) still count for these days, and along with the dubious “number-crunching” that apparently contributed to the Chris Capuano deal, it’s fair to enter the season with a real amount of concern over the two older, injury-prone veteran imports who are only effective in larger parks like Dodger Stadium, CitiField, and Petco. 

          • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

            That “dubious number-crunching” is a link to my story, which I already acknowledged. Do you really take issue with Mike’s statement, “it’s fair to enter the season with a real amount of concern over the two older, injury-prone veteran imports?”  Are you saying that every non-saber person wouldn’t be concerned about a 33-year-old pitcher who had won 15 games in the previous four seasons? 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

      The following is a question, not a statement: Would you say that BABIP, particularly for hitters, is somewhat over-used to describe performance as being “lucky”?

      Now, the staement: I feel that, over time, each player (pitcher OR hitter) establishes his own mean level of BABIP, which may or may not conform to league average. For a hitter like a Matt Kemp, it would seem that the fact that he A) Crushes the ball, and B) Runs very well (infield hits)…will lead to a generally consistent high BABIP over time (and it has).

      On pitchers, I would think that someone like Capuano (who for his career has a low .297 BABIP…not that far off from his current .270) has pitched long enough at basically the same BABIP level to say definitively that he is a “low BABIP pitcher”. On the other hand, Billingsley does have a very high BABIP this year compared to his career levels…but his line drive percentage is also up substantially over his best years. Perhaps Billingsley has EARNED that high BABIP, and luck has nothing to do with it. Perhaps. For sure…and this is my opinion, Capuano has been far more effective than Billingsley this year.

      I guess what I’m saying is that low BABIP for a pitcher does not necessarily mean “lucky”, any more than high BABIP does for a hitter.

      • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

         Over-used by some, under-used by others. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

          I think the folks at Fangraphs and others that do this for a living understand the true use of this stat…the problem is the blogger or commenter or sportswriter that knows just enough to be dangerous and begins labeling players “lucky” or “unlucky” without looking at underlying causes.

      • Anonymous

        There was an article on Fangraphs a couple weeks back about this very issue. Basically the point made was that calling BABIP-fueled performances “lucky” or “unlucky” not only misrepresents statistical analysis, but risks alienating popular audience by using condescending language that does not align well with reality. As you say, it is not just “luck” when Lincecum heaves a meatball down the pipe two, three times per game. It is not just “luck” that Billingsley’s pitches have been hit harder. A fan will naturally feel that a stats analysis that calls BABIP “luck” has missed the point.

        It’s probably best to think of BABIP as an aggregate of factors that influence what happens to a ball after it is let go by the pitcher (which includes factors that lead up to that moment). Luck is definitely a part of it, so are the natural highs and lows of a season, and many other factors. However, the word “lucky” does have a place as a convenient shorthand for BABIP-Fueled.

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    In general, VODF, this to me is another case of you seeking out to make fans of statistical analysis into villains.  Why even make that an issue – completely unprovoked – especially if you know that the Dodgers’ stat guy recommended the Capuano signing?  

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      so are you still saying you’re right about the stat folk applauding the capuano signing?

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        i prefer you just ban if you think that’s out of line.

        • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

          I am asking you to follow the same rules that every other person here has to follow. You are not being singled out.  Do not bait people.  Do not make the same argument over and over again.  If this is a problem for you, then ban yourself.

          Do you think it has not registered here that you think little of stat people?  It has. 

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            yeah and some people hate loney and say it over and over. some people hate uribe and say it over and over. and so on.

          • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

             And I told the Loney guy to cut it out.
            Uribe perhaps I’ve been a little softer on, but I also challenged people the other day who said he was worthless.

      • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

        I’m saying that to say that the stat folk universally decried it is obviously false, and that to say that the stat folk are saying he is certain to crash is obviously false. If you could just get past your own blind spot that makes you see everyone who doesn’t agree with your take on stats as one giant monolithic group, you would concede that and we wouldn’t be having this ridiculous disagreement. 

        But you’re so determined to insist that stat people think the same way on everything, rather than find a middle ground, you’d rather fight. 

        I’ve already conceded that I myself underestimated Capuano. But you can’t concede that some “stat folk” were right on Capuano, even though you yourself have been shown examples of stat folk endorsing the signing.

        • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

          sorry everything i read was bad signing. the only good i read was from Ned’s stat guy. because of that i count it as universally.

  • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

    honestly Jon i think you’re overreacting to me giving your friends a hard time. which is completely fine and justifiable. it’s your site and you should have the atmosphere you feel most comfortable with. i have no problem with you.  but honestly you’re not doing your blood pressure any good. just ban me and let life be peaceful again.  if i was going after a player or management or another team’s player you’d have no problem with it.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

      Or perhaps…just perhaps…just maybe…you need to get over yourself.

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        i don’t know what that has due with stating opinions in an internet chat room but i’ll take it under advisement. I wrote a sentence and Jon blew up. i don’t see it as my fault. he could have just as easily said nothing as he does with other pointed opinions.

        • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

           You wrote a sentence and I blew up? 

          “Characterizing “stats folk” as anti-Capuano is rewriting history. At
          worst, there’s skepticism from a few people like myself, but it was a
          pro-stats signing. He might decline, but no one’s saying “certain to
          crash.”

          That’s blowing up?

          “Show me where Mike says Capuano is certain to crash.”

          That’s blowing up?

          “And do not respond by asking when you’re going to be banned. I’m not
          looking to ban you. I just would like it if you’d just give the
          vendetta against “stat folk” a rest.”

          That’s blowing up?

          I’m sorry, who’s the sensitive one here?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

          Well, ok. I just remember the other day you wrote an item to the effect that “the VODF persona” (your phrase, not mine) may not be a good fit here. Now a couple of points:

          1. In my experience of about 3 years here, it seems that everyone fits here if they love baseball and the Dodgers.
          2. In my experience of about 55 years on this planet, whenever someone self referentially refers to their “persona”, It makes me A) Grab for my wallet, and, B) Wonder if there is some ego driven agenda here.
          3. I look at the whole blogging/commenting scenario as a pretty effective method of sharing information and becoming part of a community with common interests, while debating items regarding which reasonable people can disagree, for the benefit of all. You obviously have great baseball knowledge, the ability to write coherently, a point of view, and a love for the team…I just wish I sensed a motivation to become part of a community rather than just preach to it.

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            yeah persona is kinda of a weird thing to say. i don’t know what possible ego driven agenda could be accomplished by an outsider in a dodgerthought chatroom but i don’t think so in answer to your question.

    • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

      No. You’re wrong.  And you’re too new here to make these kind of judgments about how I manage my site.  You have no idea of the times I’ve had to tell my best friends here to rein things in. 

      I do think it’s remarkable that you keep asking me to ban you rather than just simply obey the rules of the site. I think it’s remarkable that despite the fact that I’m clearly bending over backwards not to ban you, because I want alternate points of view in the comments, you can’t make yourself accommodate a simple request not to repeat the same argument over and over again.

      I don’t care which player or member of management you go after. When have I ever indicated anyone was off limits?

      • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

        and what argument was that jon. i said stat boys were predicting doom for capuano. i believe the very first time i mentioned it. some of the ones i read are. how that is over and over about anything seems remarkable to me. your sensitive to the words stat boy. that seems remarkable to me.

        • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

          It’s not about Capuano. It’s about your vendetta against stat boys that I have to read here every single day.

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            well you’d have to show me that everyday proof because again i think you’re over the top making that assessment. but again you have a fine site, you’re a fine writer. you have fine commentators. but you clearly have uneven standards about some things but that’s ok with me. nobody could be completely unbiased. it’s not possible.

            i’m pretty sure i’m not going to be able to guess what upsets you about  stat things compared to other things. i still think the best thing is for you to ban me because i’m also sure i’m not going fall within your standards of behavior if you think what i’ve been doing the last week or so is out of line on a daily basis. i have no problem with the banning. save yourself some unhappiness. life is too short.

          • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

            If you are sure you are not going to fall within the site’s standards of behavior, then you should do the honorable thing. You.

          • Casey Barker

            I, for one, have been taken aback at some of your arguments from the first time I read your posts.  You were over the top about Dee Gordon’s poor performance this year, and you seem to me to be reactionary about statistics in baseball and what they say about certain players.

            Jon doesn’t need defending, but the above is more evidence that your everday arguments have worn thin.

  • Anonymous

    Cool:
    Brazilian Soccer Team Asks Super Fans to Show Their Support by Giving Blood http://bit.ly/NgKwBu #thickerthanwater

    I would definitely do this for the Dodgers, even though I bleed plain old red just like everyone else. 

  • Anonymous

    So, AZ wants to trade Upton.  They want a young shortstop, a third baseman, and a starting pitcher.  So, let’s start with Gordon, Uribe, Billingsley and cash.  

    Ellis
    Loney
    Kemp
    Upton
    Ethier
    Ellis
    Hairston/Herrera
    Cruz

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      no for the same reason they can’t get headley

      rivals don’t trade very good productive age players to rivals. the dodgers have traded 5 times with the diamondbacks. three of those trades don’t count because they were made by DePodesta who was the anti-GM. not saying good or bad they just don’t do it. the potential blowback is too much for them to stand on three levels: business, morale, PR.

      ps. the wonderkid traded shawn Green for the prototype money ball player Dioner N.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713935344 Jason Ungar

        it was a salary dump and no one thinks (money ball or otherwise) Navarro was ever a protoype player.

        • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

          yes it was somewhat of a salary dump i agree but he chose navarro because he fit the profile in my opinion. i think i remember at that time that Paul talked a lot about dioner as the dodger catcher of the future and he was the guy he wanted in that trade because of whatever. and he looked good at the time to me. so i agree on the first half but would suggest dioner fit the moneyball profile.

          • Anonymous

            At the time, Navarro was a highly touted catching prospect in the Yankee organization.  If anything, this trade showcases how trading the known for the unknown represents risk.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

            He was a highly regarded prospect in general. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don’t…and hello there Joel Guzman :)

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            Back at you Jose Offerman

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

            Actually, Navarro was considered an excellent catching prospect all over baseball.. What I mostly remember was people raving about his defensive skills. He was also a pretty good hitter in the minors, coming up through the Yankee chain, though he never showed much power. Although his OBP’s were decent, I don’t think he was a DePodesta Guy in particular. I think most of MLB thought he was going to be really good for a long time.

          • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

            can’t speak to all of MLB thought he was going to be really good for a long time. but the dodgers certainly did.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713935344 Jason Ungar

             If I remember right part of the reason that deal was made was to aqquire Derek Lowe

      • Anonymous

        VODF, I think you are misunderstanding “Moneyball.” Moneyball doesn’t mean you go after high OBP, high K% guys or any other fixed model of a ballplayer. It simply means that the front office should try to capitalize on market inefficiencies to make the most efficient use of a team’s resources. Back when “Moneyball” became the hip thing, that market ineffiency was high OBP guys. Now that OBP is no longer a market ineffiency, you see BB changing his approach completely. Oakland is now a running and fielding team, because now running and fielding are the baseball abilities/commodities that are undervalued.

        • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

          you’re right money ball has the bigger meaning. what i meant to say navarro was the kind of player depodesta targeted in moneyball.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713935344 Jason Ungar

             He was not the type of player that Depodesta targeted in Moneyball. He would have targeted Russell Martin.

      • Anonymous

        How far back in history is it safe to go back to in order to predict the future?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

      Not enough, unfortunately. But I like the way you think :) ….The fact is that the Dodgers don’t have enough in their system to get a guy like Upton from a division rival. Plus, I think Gordon’s value is nil (we’re not even sure he’s a big league player), Billingsley’s value on the market is not what it was even a year ago, and Uribe may have signed his last contract in the big leagues.

      • Anonymous

        True, though Gordon and Billingsley may have a little more value than we think.

    • Anonymous

      I think there’s a huge gulf between wanting to trade Upton and wanting to give Upton away AND take on bad contracts at the same time. Upton is having a down year, but he is just 24 year old. Any noise about AZ wanting to trade Upton is probably on the same level as the rumors about Kemp that circulated a couple years back during Kemp’s struggles. I’m not sure what the market price would be like for a 24 year old player who has already amassed 15+ WAR and signed to a reasonable contract, but I think it’s safe to say any acceptable offer will not include the words Uribe and Gordon.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

        I agree…there’s no way they are serious about trading him.

    • Anonymous

      Would Hairston/Herrera be know as Hairerra?  Or Herrston, which sounds like a German lodge. Nomandy Garciaroche wants to know.  So does Mulliniorg, which was not a hairstyle, but rather the greatest name ever for a platoon.  It didn’t hurt that the individual parts of said platoon were even better: Garth Iorg and Rance Mulliniks.

  • Anonymous

    I tend to discount any trade proposal that tries to make up in quantity what it lacks in quality.  If a  plus player is not worth one or two minus players, adding two or three other stiffs doesn’t make that deal more appealing. 

  • Anonymous

    The Dodgers getting an outfielder from the DBacks? It would never happen.

    I am guessing Steve Finley never happened.

    • http://veryolddodgerfan.blogspot.com/ veryolddodgerfan

      DePodesta

  • Jack Dawkins

    Usually the all star break is considered some of the slower days in sport….

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

    By the way…Navarro is killing it in the Cincy chain this year…he may get called up.

    • Anonymous

      If he does, maybe that will depress the Reds enough to consider moving some folks.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

        He must have taken a baseball pill. .335/.403/.449 through 49 games and 188 plate appearances.

  • Anonymous

    Anyone think the Phillies are getting close enough to throwing in the towel that they might consider moving Ryan Howard.  Perhaps not the premier choice, but he does fill a need.

    • Anonymous

      Who wants Ryan Howard’s contract?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Pruett/1707390003 Terry Pruett

        Agreed.

      • Anonymous

        If there is one thing Ned has shown to be good at, it would be getting other teams to pay the player they are dumping.  I would acknowledge that Philadelphia would not pay the whole contract at this point, but they could pay enough to make him a consideration.

  • Anonymous

    The other day, I had mentioned the changes to team schedules that will accompany the move to two 15-team leagues.  For the Dodgers, this means one less team for interdivision intraleague games.  I had assumed they would continue the current structure with most teams playing 15 interleague games, six with “natural rivals” and nine with other teams.  As it turns out, apparently one change that will be implemented will be a reduction in the number of interleague games with “natural rivals” from six to four, to reduce the fairness issue with this unbalanced part of the schedule every year.  Given the Dodgers record vs the Angels, this looks like a good thing for us.  Here’s the article where I read this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-fewer-cubsvssox-games-in-store-20120710,0,7714798.story

    • Anonymous

      They’ll probably just make it up with three more games against he White Sox.  You know, because there are so many fans still jazzed about that 1959 World Series rivalry.

      • Anonymous

        The Dodgers don’t play the White Sox that often.  The Dodgers rotate which division they play most of their interleague games against, with the Sox joining other teams from the AL Central in 2003, 2005, 2008, and 2011.  They also added a series in 2009 so they could commemorate the 50th anniversary of the ’59 series, and six of the ’59 Sox players were present and honored.  I don’t know why they’re on the schedule for 2012, but it’s the first time in a long time that they don’t show up as part of playing the AL Central teams or that one special occasion.

        I wish the Dodgers would play at the Cell more often, so I wouldn’t have to go out of town to see them (aside from the Cubs), but they don’t. It’s pretty darn rare.

        • Anonymous

          Nsxtasy: 

          Thanks for doing the research to prove my point.  The Dodgers have played the White Sox in four of the last five years, more so than any AL team except the Angels.  

          • Anonymous

            You’re “cherry-picking” your stats by making that claim while ignoring the fact that the Dodgers played the Sox in only two of the previous 11 years, FEWER than any other AL team.

            It’s even possible that this is the precise reason they added the Sox to the schedule a lot lately, just to make up for the imbalance of the previous 11 years when they hardly ever played at all.

            They also might add an extra series against the Sox in 2059 to commemorate the 1959 World Series again. So you can make the same silly complaints about it then, too! :)

    • KT

      I think the change is for the better myself

      • Anonymous

        I agree.  Not only because it’s good for the Dodgers, but also because it reduces the unfairness of the unbalanced schedule, which I think is a good thing for everyone.

        I bet Mets fans like it, too.

        • Anonymous

          Anything that reduces the number of interleague games is a positive. Eliminating interleague play would make me ecstatic.

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    Colletti sent Tony Abreu, who might have been the top infielder in the Dodger system at the time, to Arizona for a month of Jon Garland. 

    Colletti also made an August deal with the Padres for Greg Maddux, though that came more cheaply.

    And as Bob pointed out earlier this week, there was the memorable Travis Denker for Mark Sweeney trade in 2007.

    But perhaps no deal can top the importance of Dan Evans’ 2003 blockbuster – Luke Allen to the Rockies for Jason Romano.

    • Anonymous

      In other words, Dodger deals within the division have generally amounted to little more than one team digging through the other’s trash.  Do I smell a Willie Bloomquist for Juan Uribe swap?

      • Anonymous

        Actually, most trades are little more than that.  Teams don’t generally want to give up players who are really great, unless they’re about to lose them to free agency anyway or they have some other flaw.  That’s why everybody wants to trade players who aren’t doing well (the Loneys and Uribes of the world) and nobody wants to trade the really good ones (Kemp, Kershaw, etc) or even solid guys like Capuano or AJ or Kenley.  But if you’re trading the bottom of the barrel, you can’t expect to get much more than that in return.

    • Anonymous

      Tony Abreu was 24 years old and had never hit outside of the PCL. He showed zero power and no ability to take a walk. It is in hindsight but it must have been painfully obvious to the FO that Abreu would not succeed. Garland started 6 games and was excellent. Considering we won the division by 3 games, it’s not like a “month of Garland” was completely useless.

      I mention this because I think we mischaracterize deadline trades when we call them “Prospect X for 1-2 months of Veteran Y.” A win during a tight pennant race is far more valuable than a win four years later.

    • Anonymous

       Travis Denker was definitely more valuable than Mark Sweeney.

      • Anonymous

        The famous Travis Denker of 42 ML plate appearances.  Showcases how past his prime Sweeney was when he came to the Dodgers.

        • Anonymous

           Next to Sweeney, Garrett Anderson looked good.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Casey-Barker/100003908968118 Casey Barker

    By the way, did anyone see the proposed rule change to the Derby: http://tinyurl.com/7puwhuk?  Let’s just placate these boorish fans by introducing another gimmicky solution to this exhibition.  Sheesh!

    • Anonymous

      So if the All-Star game were being played in Oakland, they’d make Ryan Cook hit in the Home Run Derby?

      • Anonymous

        No danger of either of those things happening, since MLB likes to play the ASG in new or at least interesting parks, not converted football stadiums.

        But I have no problem with a hometown favorite in the home run derby, which is little more than an exhibition for the fans.  If it be Ryan Cook, so what.  He could hardly do worse than last year’s champ, Robinson Cano, or even our own vaunted Matt Kemp. 

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    Well, the Giants have done the 2012 NL Champion Dodgers a solid in the first inning today.

  • KT

    good hit Raffy

  • KT

    And the National League pour it on 8-0 top of 4

  • KT

    Kershaw warming up

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713935344 Jason Ungar

    I used to love the all star game as a kid. I’d even miss soccer or baseball practice because of it..Nowadays I don’t even watch it.

    • KT

      I haven’t watched it in years but since it might have a major affect on our club than I figured that I’d watch fast forwarding through all the pregame “stuff”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=713935344 Jason Ungar

         I think lots of it just has to due with the internet and cable TV. When I was young there was no other way to watch some of these guys you only read about

        • KT

          yea I remember those days

    • Anonymous

      I agree, it’s no longer worth the effort, but there were some great ASGs, especially in the 1960s.

  • Anonymous

    Jon, will there ever be another “Cogs and Dawgs?”

    • KT

      earlier this year he said it was too much work…But as I always say never say never because things constently change

    • Anonymous

      Mid-season one might be nice.

  • http://www.twitter.com/ElJefedor Jeffrey Thomas III

    That was a clown play, bro.

    • KT

      you talking about Harper…It cost Kershaw a lot more pitches

      • http://www.twitter.com/ElJefedor Jeffrey Thomas III

        Yes I am. Thankfully he caught the one off of Kinsler’s bat.

      • Anonymous

        I didn’t see the game, but perusing Gameday made it sound that Kershaw was not sharp. Am I correct?

        • KT

          No he looked pretty good. He would have been out of the inning with 14 pitches vice 27 pitches. It wasn’t until after Harper missed of Napoli’s routine flyball that he fell behind Granderson missing the zone but not by much but he eventually got him. After granderson he started missing the zone by more

  • Anonymous

    Wonder if the NL dominance isn’t 100% random/incidental….  90%?

  • KT

    Home field advantage…Hopefully we get there to enjoy it

  • Anonymous

    Didn’t get to see a single pitch but do love the outcome. That’s 3 years in a row for the Real League over the Phony League.

  • Anonymous

    Was it this century that we got a new outfield after the AS break that included Rickey Henderson and I believe Jeremy Burnitz?

    • Anonymous

      2003

    • Anonymous

      Never did much for us, but I always gave Jeromy points for style.

  • Anonymous

    MLB downgrades the Dodgers to ellipsis status.

    https://twitter.com/MLB/status/223069309365268482

  • http://www.dodgerthoughts.com/ Jon Weisman

    NPUT